Discovering Our Scars
Discovering Our Scars
Life Not According to Plan
We make plans—the BEST plans—and then life does what it does and our plans are for nothing. Steph and Beth planned to have a great start to 2023, but then Steph’s roof started leaking, Beth got COVID, and Steph had to say goodbye to her dog Mac. This is an honest conversation about grief, intentions, catastrophizing, and why the first month of 2023 might have already ruined the year, or not.
Full transcript and show notes here: https://bit.ly/dospod137
Voicemail & text: (850) 270-3308
Stephanie Kostopoulos : https://www.stephaniekostopoulos.com/
Beth Demme: http://bethdemme.com/
Beth Demme (00:03):
Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:05):
Where we share personal experiences so we can learn from each other. I'm Steph.
Beth Demme (00:08):
And I'm Beth.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:09):
I've been in recovery for 16 years and am the author of Discovering My Scars, my memoir about what's done in the Darkness eventually comes to light.
Beth Demme (00:15):
I'm a lawyer, turn pastor who's all about self-awareness and emotional health because I know what it's like to have neither of those things.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:22):
Beth and I've been friends for years, have gone through a recovery program together. And when I wanted to start a podcast, she was the only name that came to mind as co-host.
Beth Demme (00:29):
I didn't hesitate to say yes because I've learned a lot from sharing personal experiences with Steph over the years.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:34):
We value honest conversations and we hope you do too.
Beth Demme (00:37):
On today's show, we're going to have an honest conversation titled Life Not According To Plan.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:42):
Then we'll share a slice of life, and the show will close with questions for reflection, where we'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in your own life. So Beth, we started out this year Strong.
Beth Demme (00:51):
We did.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (00:52):
We were really proud of our first episode called New Year's Reflections.
Beth Demme (00:57):
Yep. Episode 135. Bring it on 2023.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:00):
Yes.
Beth Demme (01:00):
We reflected on 2022. We made some--not really forecasts--but we shared some ideas we had about the coming year. We were on a roll.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:09):
We were ready. In full disclosure, we recorded that episode before Christmas.
Beth Demme (01:13):
Right, because we needed to release it.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:15):
Yes.
Beth Demme (01:15):
Early in the year.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:15):
Yes.
Beth Demme (01:15):
[inaudible 00:01:16].
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:16):
So we did record it in the middle of December with high hopes.
Beth Demme (01:19):
Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:20):
High hopes of what was coming. And we were reflecting on the past year.
Beth Demme (01:24):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:24):
You know?
Beth Demme (01:25):
Right. We did both.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:25):
So...
Beth Demme (01:26):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:27):
We released it. That was good.
Beth Demme (01:29):
That was good.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:30):
And then?
Beth Demme (01:31):
And then real life happened.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:33):
And then maybe three weeks happened and we didn't have a podcast come out.
Beth Demme (01:38):
Which we've never had that happen in three and a half years of podcasting. We've never missed an episode.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:43):
Yes, which I am not someone that is going to, I don't believe in apologizing for not getting out content on a consistent schedule because life happens. But also, that's just kind of a big deal to us because.
Beth Demme (01:56):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:56):
We haven't done that.
Beth Demme (01:57):
Right. Right. Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (01:58):
And it wasn't a hard decision to decide to not do it because life was more important. But what happened? What was the first kind of thing that happened of why we didn't?
Beth Demme (02:09):
The first delay was because the day we were supposed to record. Well, initially we had a recording set, and then I had to call you and say, "My husband has COVID, so we're going to have to record remotely."
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:25):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (02:26):
And you were like, "Okay, no problem. We can pivot. We can do that."
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:28):
I will say, in my mind, I'm like, "She going to get COVID." And Beth was so optimistic.
Beth Demme (02:34):
I was.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:34):
"I'm feeling great."
Beth Demme (02:36):
I did. I felt good.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:37):
She thought she still had her superhero outfit on that said, "I am no COVID woman."
Beth Demme (02:43):
I moved him. Well, he moved himself upstairs in the house. We were on separate floors. I kept my distance. I still got the VID. I still got COVID. So then I did not feel good. I did not feel good at all, but.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:57):
So we rescheduled multiple times.
Beth Demme (02:59):
Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (02:59):
Because you kept having this hope that it was going to happen.
Beth Demme (03:02):
I kept testing negative for the first several days, so I was like, "No, this is something else. This is something else," but.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:08):
And I kept being like, "Should we reschedule?"
Beth Demme (03:11):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:11):
"Should we move it?"
Beth Demme (03:12):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:12):
I'm just open-ended. And you're like, "No, but this is going to happen."
Beth Demme (03:16):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:17):
"I am not sick."
Beth Demme (03:18):
But I was sick.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:19):
And so...
Beth Demme (03:21):
Then we rescheduled.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:23):
Yes.
Beth Demme (03:24):
But then we couldn't record.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:25):
We rescheduled to a date right before, because you also basically 10 days after you had COVID was your Montana trip that you talked about.
Beth Demme (03:35):
Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:36):
In the New Year's reflections, which did happen.
Beth Demme (03:38):
It did happen.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:39):
You went snowmobiling.
Beth Demme (03:40):
I was fortunate enough that we were way outside of our quarantine period and feeling well enough that we could go and really enjoy it.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:48):
But we were going to record it the day before you left, and I just wasn't up for it.
Beth Demme (03:55):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (03:55):
We had rescheduled a couple times, and then we rearranged episodes because we were supposed to have Daniel on, and so then we were going to switch some episodes around. Anyways, it was just a lot.
Beth Demme (04:05):
Yeah. And you even thought, well, if you're not up to it, maybe you would do, since I wasn't up to it, maybe you would do a solo episode.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:12):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (04:12):
We had a lot of ideas floating.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:14):
Yes, a lot of ideas. But then why don't we just skip it? And that would be okay.
Beth Demme (04:19):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (04:19):
Yeah. So I was not in a, I had a lot that happened in a short amount of time. So that's also why I just wasn't mentally ready for it. The day, the Friday before Christmas, so two days before Christmas, I was going to drive my niblings to Orlando and then come back on Christmas day, come back to Tallahassee. So I was ready.
(04:49):
It was like, we were going to leave in the morning because we knew there was going to be traffic. So I was all ready to go, and I went to my Lego room to open the door for the dog, the window for the dogs to look out. And I look up at my ceiling and I see water spots on my ceiling in my Lego room.
Beth Demme (05:04):
Uh-oh.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:05):
And I'm just like, you know?
Beth Demme (05:07):
Those are not supposed to be there.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:08):
Yeah. And so I am like my ceiling, my roof is collapsing. Oh my goodness. So anyways, long story, but I had the stress of not knowing what was happening with my roof, and I had to drive to Orlando, and also not having a chance to have anyone look at my roof until multiple days later because of the holiday.
(05:32):
So that was a kind of heightened stress that was going on. Long story. But it ended up being not a huge issue. It was a gutter that had fallen on a roof shingle and caused the water leak to happen, and everything has been replaced and is good to go now. But that was a very stressful moment. And then...
Beth Demme (05:54):
Well, it's hard, right? Because when you find it, you don't know how extensive the damage is.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (05:57):
And I wasn't going to be home to even explore it.
Beth Demme (05:59):
Right. Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:00):
I was needed to go take them to Orlando.
Beth Demme (06:04):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:04):
Because that's where they were going to have Christmas.
Beth Demme (06:05):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:06):
And I knew we had to get on the road as soon as we could because it was going to be a lot of traffic.
Beth Demme (06:11):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:11):
And it was, it was two extra hours.
Beth Demme (06:12):
Oh wow.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:13):
Of traffic. So it was exactly what I thought would be. But yeah, so it's just those unknowns of that kind of thing. And of course happening on a holiday. But then also, I think it was a Tuesday that we were going to record that we had rescheduled to.
(06:30):
But that weekend, my dog, Mack had shown some major pain in her, I thought in her legs, but it ended up being a spine issue. And so I set, I had an appointment with my vet on that Monday. She got some meds and she was doing a little bit better with the meds. So Tuesday, Mack was doing a little bit better, but I had just been emotionally drained.
Beth Demme (06:52):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (06:52):
From my roof stuff. And then my dog, she was doing really bad on that Sunday, a couple days before that, I thought I was going to have to put her down on Monday. And so it was, I was drained on that Tuesday.
Beth Demme (07:04):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:05):
So that's why we didn't record an episode.
Beth Demme (07:08):
Well, it's like one of those things, right? We came into the year, we were like, "Okay, new year, fresh start, these are our plans. This is how things are going to go." And then, I mean, there's so many cliches about it because it's such a universal experience, but we make plans and God laughs. Or when life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. Gosh darn it, because things.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:30):
Well, we canceled our lemonade. I think we canceled the lemonade on that recording day. And I don't feel bad that we did that.
Beth Demme (07:38):
Right. Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:41):
So you went on your trip.
Beth Demme (07:42):
I went on my trip.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:43):
And that went well.
Beth Demme (07:44):
Went great.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:44):
So know that was exactly as you envisioned.
Beth Demme (07:47):
Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:48):
Because you're a good planner.
Beth Demme (07:50):
Because we got very lucky with weather and some flights and things working out.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (07:54):
Yeah. So in between all of this, I had a appointment with my psychologist, Jill. We've had her on the podcast. And so I had really been having a lot of anxiety during the roof incident, like I said, it's all fine now. And then I had a lot of anxiety about Mack when she had those issues. And then I have some anxiety meds, but then I have anxiety sometimes about taking them.
(08:23):
And so I found myself just overthinking everything and going to the bad place right away. And so when I talked to Jill about this, she says, "Well, you catastrophize." And I was like, "That's a big word. What do you mean?" And she basically says, I make everything the end of the world. Which to be fair, one thing now in hindsight was not the end of the world, because it's all fixed. But one thing kind of was, so I don't know.
(08:56):
I'm still agree with her that catastrophizing is probably not a great coping mechanism, but that was something that she told me. And then I started to catastrophize about catastrophizing. So there was kind of a weekend there where it wasn't the most helpful thing that I knew that I was doing this because that was something that I was telling her I wanted to work on was my resilience this year, and just getting better with, when life gives you lemons, I want to make my lemonade.
Beth Demme (09:25):
Right. Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:26):
Okay? And I don't want to think of all the bad things. I want to just have some lemonade. And so she says, I need to work on my catastrophizing first. And she also told me that she doesn't think I will ever necessarily be able to not catastrophize because of my past trauma.
Beth Demme (09:45):
That would make it hard for me to work on it. If somebody told me, "You could work on this, but you're never going to get any, it's never going to get any better." Like [inaudible 00:09:52].
Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:52):
And it's really one of those things where I'm really like, yeah, I go back and forth with it because it's kind of.
Beth Demme (09:57):
Did she say that or are you catastrophizing what she said?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (09:59):
No, she did. She said it multiple times. She says, "I don't know that you were ever going to be able to be better with these things because of your past." And she said it multiple ways in multiple. But then I also think it was reverse psychology where she was saying that, "You're never going to get better." And that was a thing that, "I'm going to show you. I'm going to get better."
Beth Demme (10:20):
Okay.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:21):
So I don't know if she was telling me because it was truth or she's telling me because she wanted to, but now I'm analyzing that.
Beth Demme (10:28):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (10:28):
And now I'm catastrophizing about my psychologist maybe trying to reverse psychology me. I'm like, "Did I pay for the reverse? I wanted the forward, what's happening?" So yeah, so I analyzed that for about a week, which was good because it helped me to not super focus on Mack because I was focusing on my catastrophizing. So Mack was on steroids for two weeks and pain meds to help with the pain in her spine.
(10:56):
And that's what my vet found was she had pain in her spine and she thought the meds would make her better. And they did the first week, and then the second week, not so much. So two weeks later after I catastrophized that I was going to have to put my dog down, Mack wasn't better. And when I had my follow-up, two-week follow-up appointment with my vet, her demeanor was very different.
(11:26):
She sat down in a chair, I don't think I've seen her in a chair, normally standing up and very bubbly. And she just talks slow. And she just kind of told me, she told me what my options are. We can definitely continue with the pain meds in trying to find out what works best to take away her pain. So we definitely talked about options. And she sent me home with some new pain meds that we were going to try. And so I got home and give her the meds and she didn't bounce back.
(12:04):
Previous meds she kind of had, they had helped, they keep make her not in pain. So it was Monday night that I realized she didn't want to live with the pain and we weren't able to manage it to a place where she could have her old life back. So Tuesday I took her to my vet to have her euthanized. And it was really sad. This is one week later, well, not even a full week. This is, tomorrow will be one week.
Beth Demme (12:39):
Yeah. So we're just at about six days.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:41):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (12:43):
And this is Mack of the famous duo, Mack and Tosh.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:47):
Yes.
Beth Demme (12:48):
So...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:48):
If I didn't say my dog, it's a dog.
Beth Demme (12:52):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (12:53):
My Greyhound. We did an episode about her 12 years ago. How? Three years, four years ago? Three years ago.
Beth Demme (13:01):
Three years ago maybe.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:03):
It was one of our first episodes. We did an episode about how she changed my life, how she disrupted my life in the most beautiful way.
Beth Demme (13:10):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:10):
It's a really long title, but it was all so true.
Beth Demme (13:14):
We'll definitely put a link to that in the show notes to make it easy to find.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:16):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (13:17):
It was episode 15.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:18):
Yeah. See?
Beth Demme (13:19):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:19):
Crazy. And this is episode 137.
Beth Demme (13:20):
137.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:22):
So I did listen to it back, and that was, I'm glad to have that recorded. But so see, I don't feel so bad that I catastrophized two weeks ago. Because I...
Beth Demme (13:33):
Right. Right. Because the worst thing happened.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:35):
The worst thing did happen.
Beth Demme (13:35):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:36):
And so on Tuesday, it was interesting because, I mean, I have cried a lot about it for two weeks, so.
Beth Demme (13:43):
Sure. Sure.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:44):
To be fair. But on Tuesday when I literally took her to be euthanized, I was kind of joking, which is probably a...
Beth Demme (13:55):
A coping mechanism.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:56):
Coping mechanism.
Beth Demme (13:57):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (13:57):
And I was kind of like, my mom filmed the whole thing and I saw some of the footage and I'm like, "I look pretty chill."
Beth Demme (14:05):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (14:06):
And I do think I had already kind of prepared myself for the worst two weeks before so I wasn't crazy shocked. I was super sad, but I knew I was making the right decision. So maybe that's why I wasn't a total wreck, but. So I mean, I don't have any answers. I think catastrophizing is a bad thing, but I will say it doesn't feel like it was the worst thing in that situation. I do think I want to work on knowing when to overthink something and when to not overthink something. And I don't know that I'll ever know or be able to be good at one or the other, as my psychologist said, so.
Beth Demme (14:49):
Right. Well, it's interesting that something happens that sets off the thinking. So it's not as if you're just, you're working and then all of a sudden you make this decision, "I'm going to think about something bad and then I'm going to take it to its absolute worst possible outcome." It's like, no, something bad happened.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:10):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (15:12):
Mack got sick, or you found damage in your home. Something kind of triggers.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:17):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (15:18):
That thinking to get started. Well, do you find yourself now catastrophizing about things, about other things? I don't want to say something because I don't want to...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:28):
Like what?
Beth Demme (15:29):
Create a trigger.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:30):
Oh.
Beth Demme (15:30):
And have you start catastrophizing about it. But I mean, you would know if you were doing it. So are you doing it?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (15:37):
No, and I don't think I would've read about catastrophizing. Well, by the way, it's a real thing. I looked it up after she told me. And I was like, "Oh, this is a whole thing. Great. Fun. I'm glad that this is what I have now." I don't think I do it on a super regular basis. Like I said, in that first episode, last year was really good. It was a great year. And yoga was really helpful, and I'm very hopeful for the future. This just was a huge thing that I didn't see coming.
Beth Demme (16:11):
Right. This was not in the plan for January.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:13):
I mean, if I had seen this coming there's, I mean, I just had Mack's teeth clean. She had this growth in her head I had removed that ended up being nothing. There's so many things that if I knew she was going to die in January.
Beth Demme (16:26):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:27):
I wouldn't have done a ton of things.
Beth Demme (16:28):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:28):
And I wouldn't have been so stressed about X, Y, or Z because it's okay.
Beth Demme (16:32):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:34):
But I guess that's the whole thing is we don't have a crystal ball.
Beth Demme (16:36):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:36):
We don't know what...
Beth Demme (16:38):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:38):
The future holds. Which is why I'm glad that I am constantly trying to be aware of my mental health and take care of myself.
Beth Demme (16:47):
Good point.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:47):
Because I never know when something like this is going to happen.
Beth Demme (16:50):
Right. Good point.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:51):
I never want to plan for it, but I just plan for always being aware of my mental health.
Beth Demme (16:57):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (16:58):
And then when something like this happens, then I...
Beth Demme (17:00):
The you can cope.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:01):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (17:02):
You can use your coping mechanisms and you can get through it.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:04):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (17:04):
Yeah. So my husband has this incredible gift. He has an extremely logical mind and he can forecast potential results, likely results, and he can see many steps ahead. And I think the shadow side of that is that sometimes he anticipates a bad result or he anticipates a problem that actually isn't that likely and then never happens. But he's spent energy worrying about this problem that's not ever happened. That's kind of like catastrophizing, right?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:42):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (17:42):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:43):
That would be catastrophizing.
Beth Demme (17:44):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (17:46):
To think through every single bad thing that could happen and to really put a lot of focus on it. You should tell him he catastrophizes, see what he, see if he Googles it, and then catastrophize about catastrophizing.
Beth Demme (17:59):
We've used that word. So I know that he knows it.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:01):
Oh okay.
Beth Demme (18:01):
But I mean, we tease him too, about how he makes things complicated because he's thinking through all the possible steps and how things could go wrong. For example, this is such a silly example, but we really need new carpet in our master bedroom. Our house is 15 years old, our carpet is 15 years old. It needs to be replaced. But he insists that we can't replace the carpet unless we completely redo the closet.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:29):
Because there's carpet in the closet?
Beth Demme (18:31):
Because there's carpet in the closet and there are pieces of the closet structure. Like the [inaudible 00:18:37]
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:37):
Yeah, on the ground.
Beth Demme (18:37):
Touch the carpet.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (18:38):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (18:39):
But I feel like we could have a carpet company come out and they could tell us whether we had to redo the closet or whether they would just slide the new carpet right under there no problem. Because I think people get their carpet replaced, let's see, every day somebody's getting their carpet replaced. So it's just one of those things, he just makes it very complicated.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:03):
Maybe it's an introvert extrovert thing. I like to always throw that out there. Or it's you're a really positive too.
Beth Demme (19:08):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:09):
I don't know that that's necessarily an extrovert thing. You're a super positive person. And I would never say I'm a positive person, and I don't know that your husband would fall into the very positive person thing either.
Beth Demme (19:20):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:21):
Not that he's not a great person, but I feel like he's probably very similar as me.
Beth Demme (19:25):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:26):
And just we think about all the scenarios and not just the happy ones.
Beth Demme (19:30):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:30):
Mostly not the happy ones.
Beth Demme (19:32):
Right. Yeah. And we always talk about, he and I always talk about how we have balance in our relationship. So if I'm always just picking the happy things.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:38):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (19:38):
That kind of only leaves him with the...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:40):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (19:40):
Not so happy things, but.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:43):
So there is balance, but it's balance in the relationship, not in the person.
Beth Demme (19:48):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:48):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (19:48):
Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:49):
So you got to work on your catastrophize and he's got to work on the not.
Beth Demme (19:53):
So if I could catastrophize more.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:55):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (19:55):
Then he could do it less maybe.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:57):
Yeah.
Beth Demme (19:58):
Maybe.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:58):
I don't think it's possible.
Beth Demme (19:59):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (19:59):
But that's just what my psychologist told me. Maybe it's possible for other people. I was just told that I have no hope. She might not have said that. She might not have said that. I'm going to make sure she hears this episode and she knows how much that really resonated with me.
Beth Demme (20:18):
You're never going to get...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:20):
You will never...
Beth Demme (20:20):
You're never going to change.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:20):
be better.
Beth Demme (20:22):
You're not going to get better.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:22):
You will never be better, but sure, try.
Beth Demme (20:26):
But I really encourage you to try.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:28):
Yeah. I mean, you can try. There's no harm in trying, but you'll never get better. That is what I heard.
Beth Demme (20:33):
That just does not sound like Dr. Jill to me.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:37):
As I'm saying it feels like maybe she said it in a different way, but that's how I heard it.
Beth Demme (20:41):
Right. Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (20:41):
And I don't have it on film, so I can't tell you it was any different. Maybe I should film my sessions and then watch them back and be like, "Oh."
Beth Demme (20:49):
Instant replay. Oh wait, she didn't say that. So when life gives you lemons, you, catastrophizing means you tend to think these lemons are going to rot and they're going to be useless.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:05):
That's happened to me so many times with most fruit, really. I have all intentions when I buy fruit to eat it, and then it just gets moldy before I can, and then I have to throw it away before I can make anything with it.
Beth Demme (21:21):
So one of the things about that cliche, when life gives you lemons make lemonade, is I wonder if it doesn't try to rush us through, even if we're not prone to catastrophizing, right? If it doesn't rush us through to lemonade. No, sometimes...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:35):
You need it to rot.
Beth Demme (21:36):
Sometimes you got to let the lemons rot, or sometimes you just got to sit with some sour lemons. So do you think that the rest of 2023 is pretty much going to go according to plan?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:48):
I think it's ruined because...
Beth Demme (21:49):
Ah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (21:50):
I had all these plans in January, just ruined my plan. So no, I think I'm done 2023. In actuality though, I will say, thinking back to 2020.
Beth Demme (22:02):
Right?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:03):
In January, we all had high hopes.
Beth Demme (22:05):
We did.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:05):
Let me tell you.
Beth Demme (22:05):
We were like, "Oh, 2019 is gone. Welcome 2020."
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:08):
We all had high hopes in January.
Beth Demme (22:09):
We were fools.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:11):
So and then we still were pretty hopeful in February. Towards the end, we were thinking, "Hmm, something might be happening."
Beth Demme (22:17):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:17):
But we were still hopeful. Based on that.
Beth Demme (22:20):
Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:22):
I think things could go up from here, actually.
Beth Demme (22:25):
Okay.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:25):
Based on that.
Beth Demme (22:26):
Okay. That's great.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:27):
I do think based on that.
Beth Demme (22:28):
Because I thought you were going to go the other direction, and I thought you were going to say this time in 2020, we didn't know that COVID was coming and so we don't know what terrible plague is going to be unleashed upon us in 2020.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (22:41):
Why are you catastrophizing now? Are you trying to practice?
Beth Demme (22:44):
No, I'm saying I thought that's what you were going to do and you didn't. Just this episode has made you better. Ta-da. You're welcome. Here's your lemonade.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:02):
Well, that was in a nice little bow.
Beth Demme (23:05):
I love a bow.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:06):
You love a bow. We were just talking about that for two hours before we recorded our podcast. You were talking about.
Beth Demme (23:11):
I don't know why we weren't recording that. That was Podcast Gold. It was just random stuff that we were just catching up on.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:18):
You know I find interesting is the first thing you said is Podcast Gold. And the second thing was we just talked randomly about stuff. I think we have different definitions of Podcast Gold here.
Beth Demme (23:28):
Are those two different things, two different pots there?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:30):
Those feel like two different things that didn't match.
Beth Demme (23:33):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:33):
Together. Yeah.
Beth Demme (23:34):
You make a good point. You make a good point.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:37):
But yeah, we did talk two hours about, I don't know, stuff.
Beth Demme (23:41):
Right. Including that I like it when shows, this happens.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:43):
Oh yeah.
Beth Demme (23:44):
To also be true of books, I like it when they end with a bow that I know everyone is okay and the story is really over. Don't cancel my show. Give me a series finale. Right? Come on.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (23:57):
I agree. I totally agree with that. One of my favorite shows from the nineties was Lois & Clark.
Beth Demme (24:02):
Oh yeah. Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:02):
I don't like superheroes, but that was the, that was the only show I liked. And I still am a little bitter because I had four seasons and the four season ends of the cliffhanger and we never got resolved. So I totally understand what you mean. I want my freaking bow. I still don't have my bow to Lois & Clark, and they better bring that show back.
Beth Demme (24:25):
It's been almost.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:26):
And answer that question.
Beth Demme (24:27):
It's been almost 30 years, they're going to bring it back.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:28):
I just thought of that.
Beth Demme (24:29):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:29):
They're rebooting so many shows. I haven't heard anything about that. I don't know.
Beth Demme (24:33):
I didn't think about that. But you're right. They are rebooting a lot of shows.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:36):
I know, but I haven't heard anything about Lois & Clark.
Beth Demme (24:37):
Like we've both.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:38):
It's the best show from the nineties.
Beth Demme (24:39):
Well, we've both been watching That '90s Show.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:40):
Yes.
Beth Demme (24:40):
Which is the reboot of That '70s Show.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:41):
Yeah. Which I like.
Beth Demme (24:44):
I like it too.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:45):
[inaudible 00:24:46] super cute. But I'm a 90's kid.
Beth Demme (24:47):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:49):
You were...
Beth Demme (24:49):
An 80's kid.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:50):
In college in 90, right?
Beth Demme (24:51):
Yeah, I started college in 93. So I grew up more in the eighties.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (24:56):
Yeah. Oh, where we giving you examples of the randomness we were talking about before we started recording?
Beth Demme (25:00):
I think so.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:00):
Okay.
Beth Demme (25:01):
I think we were just trying to bring some of that in, but...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:03):
I think we did a good job with that.
Beth Demme (25:04):
But here's the thing. Here's the thing that we could tie this in, because when life does not go according to plan, we can't reboot.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:14):
Well, that was deep Beth. I mean, it feels a little dark, but I think you're doing good on your catastrophizing. First of all, I will point that out.
Beth Demme (25:25):
I didn't say life would end.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:28):
You just die.
Beth Demme (25:28):
Just that you got to...
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:29):
Well, I think that's what you.
Beth Demme (25:30):
You got to roll with the punches.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:30):
Yeah, I think you're saying you can't reboot, do over.
Beth Demme (25:35):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:35):
Is that what you mean? You can't do over?
Beth Demme (25:36):
Yes. Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:37):
But you can move forward in a different way.
Beth Demme (25:40):
That's true.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:41):
In a new way.
Beth Demme (25:41):
Yes.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:42):
Which I think is what...
Beth Demme (25:43):
You have to, right?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:43):
Which I think is what new versions of the show kind of is though.
Beth Demme (25:47):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (25:49):
They're not actually just bringing back the old show, they're bringing back the old characters, but in new situations. So I think when bad things happen, you won't be that person you were before, but you'll be a new person in new situations. And it's all in the way that you choose to make that lemonade and what that looks like. Yeah. So I mean, think for me, I've learned that it's important to, well, through my whole life, I've learned it's important to feel my feelings and to express my feelings and to talk about them. And at some point, it won't hurt as bad. It will be easier.
Beth Demme (26:27):
Right. Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:27):
To...
Beth Demme (26:28):
Right. Whereas if you don't process your feelings and you just stuff them down, you repress them, you ignore them, it doesn't get better, weight on you.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:36):
It just eats away at you. Yeah.
Beth Demme (26:37):
Yeah.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:37):
Yeah. Which, it was what I did in my younger years.
Beth Demme (26:41):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:42):
Which I refused to do again.
Beth Demme (26:43):
Right.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:44):
So yeah.
Beth Demme (26:46):
So maybe you can reboot and maybe you're rebooting into a phase where you actually feel your feelings, and that's better.
Stephanie Kostopoulos (26:52):
Discovering Our Scars podcast 2.0. At the end of each episode, we end with questions for reflection. These are questions based on today's show that Beth will read and leave a little pause between for you to answer to yourself, or you can find a PDF on our website.
Beth Demme (27:09):
Number one, have you heard the term catastrophizing? Is this something you can relate to? Number two, when life gives you lemons, what do you do? Number three, what is the most recent thing in your life that has not gone according to plan? And number four, have you lost a loved one recently? What's your grieving process like?
Stephanie Kostopoulos (27:36):
This has been the Discovering Our Scars podcast. Thank you for joining us.
