I'm not that girl

Although we sometimes say that people can’t or don’t change, the truth is, life is all about change. Hopefully, we are always growing and learning so that we can become a better version of ourselves. Beth was recently going through a box of memories and found a bumper sticker declaring her to be a proud member of an organization she would never support in any form these days! She and Steph reflect on all sorts of (mostly) positive changes from the last several years.

Use these Questions for Reflection to apply this episode to your own life:
(1) Do you believe people can change? Have you changed?
(2) Are you the same person you were in high school? Would the high school version of yourself recognize you today?
(3) If you could forecast the next five or ten years of your life, what changes do you think you might see?
(4) Do people hold us back from growing up?

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Steph
Beth

Chapters

• 0:03 Changing Identities
• 7:10 Personal Growth and Self-Reflection
• 17:21 Personal Growth and Change Over Time
• 25:58 Reflections on Life and Self
• 29:42 Growth and Change in Marriage
• 40:38 Questions for Reflection

Transcript

Beth: 0:03

Welcome to the Discovering Our Scars podcast, where we share personal experiences, so we can learn from each other. Our mission is to talk about things you might relate to but that you don't hear being discussed in other places. Our hope is that you're encouraged to have honest conversations with people in your own life. I'm Steph and I'm Beth. On today's show we're going to have an honest conversation titled I'm Not that Girl.

Steph: 0:22

Then we'll share a slice of life and the show will close with questions for reflection and we'll invite you to reflect on the conversation in your own life.

Beth: 0:30

So apparently this is a song title, but it's not actually what we're talking about.

Steph: 0:34

I did want to point out, if anyone is a fan of musicals, like I am, my favorite musical is pretty well known. It's called Wicked the Musical and there's a song called I'm Not that Girl in the Musical and every time I say this title of this episode I think of that song. But I want to say, if you know that musical and that song, that's not what this episode is about. That's my disclaimer, Okay.

Beth: 0:59

Because this episode is about how we change. I'm not that girl. Yeah, I'm not that girl. I'm not that girl. I'm not that girl. We're also. I'm not that girl. We're struggling with inflection here.

Steph: 1:14

So basically, the concept is are we the same girl or person?

Beth: 1:19

Obviously, it's or lady or it.

Steph: 1:23

I mean whoever you identify as Are you they Are you the person you were 10 years ago, five years ago, back in high school? That's the idea is are you that girl? The reason I think this is a great title is I don't think I'm that girl. I don't think I'm that girl from yesterday, and that's really what I wanted to kind of dig into is are we that girl? Why not? Yeah, why? I feel like there's some stuff to dig into. For sure, the thing that I we've kind of talked about, which I think is a great example of this, is the girl that you used to be. I don't know that we would have been super close friends, maybe not.

Steph: 2:04

Maybe not you used to be that Republican girl.

Beth: 2:07

Yeah, I mean, actually being Republican was a really big part of my identity and I was very active in college Republicans and I was very active in student government, which we didn't have. We had political parties, but they weren't Democrat and Republican, but I was in the group that was also college Republicans and then went into student government Like that was my, they were my people.

Steph: 2:27

If you had a shirt, it would say I'm a Republican and you'd be proud of it.

Beth: 2:32

It probably wouldn't say I'm a Republican, but it would say Reagan Bush. It would say Jeb, with a big exclamation point you would literally wear that. Oh yeah, I put that. I put that bumper sticker everywhere.

Steph: 2:47

Oh my, gosh, you're that car that I would have to go pass fast because I was annoyed.

Beth: 2:52

I voted Republican in every presidential election until 2016.

Steph: 2:57

And you like stand by that. You were like this is the right president for our country. I know this is the right person.

Beth: 3:04

Yes, like you voted. I didn't always think it was the right person, but I felt like the party was right. Oh my, I know.

Steph: 3:12

So you like loved Bush, george Bush, both of them, all the Bushes, yeah, the Drunks, you're like they're the best for this country.

Beth: 3:22

I mean, who doesn't like a little bit to drink in the evening?

Steph: 3:27

There's a little bit and then there's drunk and have a DUI. I feel like there's a difference in here's a drink, here's my DUI.

Beth: 3:35

No, okay, yeah, no, it didn't bother me. Um, and I, I mean, there are still things that I believe, I still have political views that I actually associate with Republicanism, that I still believe in. I just don't see it reflected in the party today. Yeah, I mean, in 2016, I upset some relatives because I was like, guys, I'm voting for the Republican in this election, that's why I'm voting for Hillary Clinton, because I'm voting for the Republican because?

Steph: 4:06

because you felt she reflected the values more than the other one.

Beth: 4:11

We're not going to say the name.

Steph: 4:12

Yes, you know who the other one was. Yeah, um, I guess that wasn't enough for her to win. It wasn't. Your vote did not count tonight.

Beth: 4:22

I mean I voted for her. The actually the majority of the popular vote did go to her yeah that's a whole nother story, yeah. But it wasn't enough.

Steph: 4:30

So then, in 2016, you changed your party affiliation to no party, correct I?

Beth: 4:36

changed it after 2016.

Steph: 4:37

Okay.

Beth: 4:37

Yeah, I was able to vote in the Republican primaries in 2016. And then I think it was maybe March of 2018 or 2019 when I finally got around to actually changing my registration to no party affiliation.

Steph: 4:52

So then would you say are you the same girl? You were seven, eight years ago.

Beth: 4:57

I think I'm more the person I was seven or eight years ago than I than I am the person I was when I was 20. I think that my life experience has has shown me a lot of things that I that I wasn't quite thinking. I don't only say this about myself, but I just when I look back I'm like, oh, I wasn't really thinking through that or I wasn't thinking critically about that, I was just accepting it as if it were accurate. For example, the concept of trickle down economics. I believed that that worked. When the evidence actually shows us that it doesn't work. But I had to think critically about some, some of that stuff and I had to think through. I had to think critically about some issues around sexism to understand why I was really opposed to Hillary Clinton. Yeah, so I mean, all of that was just, you know, a journey of discovery.

Beth: 5:45

And this came to light recently because I was going through an old box of stuff. It was like a, you know, like a crayon box or like a cigar box, but it wasn't cigars, it was actually crayons and I found um, I found some mementos from college and in addition to my Jeb exclamation point sticker, there was also a sticker that said it was either a sticker or a button that said, um, I'm the NRA, oh no, yeah, I don't stand by that at all. Were you ever the NRA? I was never a member of the NRA, but I mean I used to go to like statewide Republican events, and so you get this swag and it just becomes part of who you are and you know, part of how you understand who you are, part of who you understand yourself to be. And I really wanted to be in politics and I really, you know, wanted to work on campaigns and I wanted to to set policy, and I'm so glad that that is not the direction my life took.

Steph: 6:42

So would you say you were wrong when you were 20? Like you made the wrong choices. Or like if you are different than if you're not who you were at 20, then were you wrong. Or how? How have you changed? How'd that change happen?

Beth: 6:58

Yeah, I do think that there are some decisions that I made, particularly when I think about some of my decisions when it comes to voting, where I have regrets. You know that was a mistake. I shouldn't have voted that way.

Steph: 7:10

But do you think you were working with the information you had at the time, in the age you were, and you made the best choice for where you were in life then, or your ignorant, not entirely, I just I think I I don't think I was thinking critically, I think I, I mean, I grew up on a pretty steady diet of conservative talk radio like that.

Beth: 7:30

We didn't listen to music, we listened to Rush Limbaugh, and so, with the information I had, you know, that was what led me to make the choices that I made, which some of which I now regret. But also, if at 48, I was the same person I was at 20, that would be really disappointing to me. Like, hopefully there's been maturity and personal growth and you know, self-awareness has brought new, new changes, new, deeper understandings, new opportunities to understand, don't you think? I mean, do you think right now is there even a party, you, that wants to be the same person you were at 20?

Steph: 8:09

Well, it's a really weird thought this am I that person? Because I think both things at the same time. I think I'm the same person. I've always been, but I also think I'm completely different and I kind of look at life like almost like a puzzle, and like when you're born, all the pieces are there, they're all scattered around, they're not put in order and as I've gotten older, the pieces have started to go into place, into their places, and I can see the picture more clearly.

Steph: 8:38

And and I kind of think, like when you talk about you know in your 20s, like you were making the wrong decisions. Well, but also now that both of us are older, like when we think back to our 20s, like we had such a small view of the world and our world was so big, though our world was like, look, I know so much, but we, literally we knew nothing, and so you know we were working with like the small piece of what we had. But no, I think I'm someone completely different than I was in my 20s. But everything that I've learned, like has brought me to where I am today, and like the stuff that I know now, like if I knew what I knew now, like back in my 20s I don't know where I would be, but you know you can't do that, you can't go back and you know, like I think everybody would like do their 20s completely different if they had the knowledge of you know, being in their 30s or 40s.

Steph: 9:34

But like, you know something that you know some. A huge thing that happened in my life was last year finding out, discovering that I'm gay, like I always was gay but never knew that. Like that was never something that I was aware of. And so life I look at life completely different now, with that knowledge, than I did. Like I always felt like something. Like I always felt like an outsider for some reason, even though I was like from like a middle upper class family, like I lived in like this part of Tallahassee with like the very white people.

Steph: 10:12

And like I can, you know I can talk the talk, like I can do what I need to do to survive in this area, but I always felt like an outsider and. I just never really fully knew why. Now I definitely feel like an outsider.

Steph: 10:26

I can really pinpoint like that's why, but uh, that's why all these things targeted at straight people actually are not so this is why I've always been really annoyed and like bothered by people like not acknowledging gay people and like people that are different, like why I've always been like like harping on that. Like I remember, like I was in a Bible study in college and I was like why aren't we talking about gay people and acceptance? And like why are we like hushed tones on this? Like this is important and they're like no, we don't need to talk about that. Okay, okay, great.

Steph: 11:02

But I feel like with every like, every day, I'm learning and growing and I'm changing in some way, but I'm also like the core of who I am still stays the same, but I just get new knowledge and new. It's almost like a video. I don't play video games, but it's almost like a video game, like as you go to different levels, like you get like more like tokens and powers and like, so. Like who you are at the end of the video game is completely different than who you were at the be at the beginning. I mean, I think that's like a parallel of life, like we aren't the person that we were when we were, you know, 20, which I do think is like an active participant thing. Like I think you have to choose.

Beth: 11:43

Like there are some people who I would say are stuck in their ways, right.

Steph: 11:46

Yeah, I don't want to change yeah.

Beth: 11:48

I have encountered people like that and I don't want to be one of those people.

Steph: 11:52

Yeah, and like I want to take in new information. Like when the Black Lives Matter, all of that stuff was happening, like I took that to heart and was really trying to listen and like, okay, I was raised to be racist, let me understand what this means and why this is. And like I'm not afraid to say that and explore that and find out this new information that I should have known so much earlier. But it doesn't matter. Like now I'm going to learn it and that doesn't make me any less of a person because this really has nothing to do with me in the sense of I didn't intentionally go out to harm right, harm people. But now that I know this information, like I need to move forward with it. It's kind of like, now that I know I'm gay, like I was realizing the day I was, like I'm actually not happier knowing I'm gay. Like it doesn't make me like, oh my gosh, my life is now complete that I know.

Steph: 12:46

But, I also can't go backwards and like go back to. Well, I was never really straight, but like I can't go backwards and say I'm going to know this.

Beth: 12:54

I know this Like it just is and it's like, and I have to progress with life with this knowledge and and you are the same person that you were a year ago or year and a half ago, or two years ago.

Steph: 13:06

But I have so much more knowledge but you have more information?

Steph: 13:08

Yeah, I have so much more information which helps, will help shape the next steps. Like and that was the same thing with all of the abuse that I realized as I got older Like I had been abused at two, five and 10. And I had no knowledge of that, like mental knowledge of that, until I was in my early 20s. And then I had to work through all of that and when I learned that it really unlocked, like me, be able to see what my why my childhood was the way it was and why I felt the way I did because of all of this abuse that I hadn't worked through.

Steph: 13:44

And again, when I learned about abuse it didn't make my life happier, like that I know that these horrible things happened to me, but I was able to move past a lot of that stuff that was holding me back, that didn't even like realize was holding me back.

Beth: 13:59

Yeah, that's the thing is, the stuff was still there. Yeah, the stuff was still there even though I didn't have the word to it, right Right, having an awareness of the stuff didn't make the stuff happen. Having an awareness is what gave you the the ability, the power, made it possible for you to to relinquish the emotional hold that it had on you.

Steph: 14:18

Yeah, and it's like how being gay doesn't mean I'm happier, but it it unlocks, like me being able to move forward in life, like now I have, I have a direction for what life potentially could be with a partner. What that could look like, like my image before was what the world was showing me of a man and that didn't seem like something I wanted or was going to ever work out. So I was like, okay, I'm good being single, which I still am. Okay being single, I'm not like against that, but there is this whole possibility of like, huh, I could have a life with somebody that I love one day.

Steph: 14:57

So I think the change is in the learning and not being afraid to explore these new things and also like realizing that, like when I learned about the abuse that was, that was bad, that was bad stuff, but I needed to work through that, because bad things happen, they happen to everybody in different ways and it's it's how we work through them that like changes us for the better. And it's not necessarily you're going to find that out right away, but working through that is ultimately like like I've worked on that abuse so much that it doesn't really affect me on a daily basis and it doesn't like derail the person that I am like. I'm happy with my life, I like who I am and I don't live in that like victim mentality Right and let that like overshadow what I can do in life.

Beth: 15:49

I mean based on the number of like self-help blogs and self-help books, it seems like Americans at least have a desire to be their best selves, which would suggest that we are in the process of changing, improving Well, I think the like stereotype is that we want to change and grow for the better every day.

Steph: 16:15

I think that's like the like that's what your goal is in life. But I think, like there's a lot by listening to the noise of social media and of the society. I think that's where you, for me, I know that's where I can get like lost in it, because they're telling you who you want to be and how you want to change in this direction, that direction, and I think that can be so overwhelming and like. For me, it's a lot of times it's not something intentional, like like I didn't intentionally seek out to explore my sexuality. You know that wasn't something but that was circumstances of life that presented itself and I wasn't even really conscious of it starting. But when it started and I was conscious of it, I allowed that Like I didn't say, no, I'm not going to think about girls. No, not at all.

Beth: 17:04

And I was like wait what is this?

Steph: 17:06

Let me explore this. Like this is complicated and this is weird, but like maybe there's something here I need to dig into, and so I. That's kind of how I've seen things in life. I things present themselves to me and I choose to explore them. But I don't necessarily like listen to a self-help guru and say, okay, I'm exploring this because this person on social media told me to, Right right, right, I think for me.

Beth: 17:31

I mean some of it in some ways. You know I've already said like I'm really glad I'm not I don't think, put in political terms, I don't think the same way that I thought when I was 20. I also was a really angry mom when my kids were toddlers and I'm really glad I'm not still that way. I am glad that I, that I went to therapy and I'm glad that I worked on the grief and the and the fear and the, the stuff that was waiting for me, that I needed to work on so that I would not be an angry person. That didn't present itself in a hey, let's have a moment of fun, self-discovery kind of way. It was like a rock bottom moment, you know, and I. But I think that then something really positive came out of that rock bottom moment because I was able to let, I was able to work through anger and develop tools, coping mechanisms and tools We've talked before about a healthy toolbox, you know so that, so that anger doesn't control me.

Steph: 18:34

Well, and you are a pastor now I am, and your kids are out of the house. They're.

Beth: 18:40

I guess they're grown. I guess we could say grown right, empty nest, yeah Slothing, they're grown.

Steph: 18:44

They're adults, but when they were younger, your first career, would you say, was as a lawyer. Yes, so are you that girl that was a lawyer back in the day Like, would you say that you're still that?

Beth: 18:59

girl. Yeah, in a lot of ways, I think I am. I think that there were a lot of things about practicing law that really that really worked for me because of who I am. You know who I was and who I am.

Steph: 19:13

What kind of things?

Beth: 19:14

I love to learn. You know, that's always been true, it's still true, and and practicing law requires a lot of learning. Um, I like to. I have a. I place a high value on the, the, the, the. This is going to be funny now because I've just flubbed it up, but I place a high value on being a good communicator and that's a big part of the law practice. And, uh, being able to take volumes of information and and synthesize them down is a big part of what a lawyer needs to do, and that has served me very well and it and it. It is like who I am, like I like to be a leader, I like to be a communicator. Like you know, that's kind of how I'm built.

Steph: 19:54

So well, one thing we're saying is with the new information we change. We can change Like with new information. You decided to not be in the Republican party anymore, but I wonder how that works with being a lawyer, because you're hired for one side of a case and then you research the heck out of that. What if you learn new information that you realize your side might be wrong? How does that work being a lawyer?

Beth: 20:21

Well, if everyone is doing their job right, then everybody has all the same information. If you're withholding information, then you're probably acting unethically.

Steph: 20:32

So it's how you spend the information, I guess yeah.

Beth: 20:35

So I mean, I did have cases and remember I defended people so in civil cases, not in criminal cases, but I defended people in cases that were just about money and there were times where I had to say we're going to lose this case, we deserve to lose this case. Okay, hey, insurance company, if you don't want to have a jury decide how much you're going to have to pay, you should settle. You know, you should try to negotiate a settlement that the other side is willing to accept.

Steph: 21:03

Did you help decide what that money would be? How?

Beth: 21:07

much that would be. Yes, yes, and there's. There are a lot of research tools available for that. I mean every. There's a database of jury verdicts and you can go in and you can keyword search and see, you know. Oh, if it's a case about a.

Steph: 21:19

So you had the power to say no, you were in. The wrong. Pay up yeah To your client. Yes, wow, okay.

Beth: 21:27

Yeah, yeah, and and that's part of being their advocate is not taking them to court and exposing them to, you know, an potentially unlimited amount of damages. You know you've got to. You got to make sure they understand what they're up against, yeah, and what is possible and how a jury might see it or how a judge might see it. So do you use those tools as a pastor.

Beth: 21:53

Hmm, that's an interesting question. I definitely use some of the things I learned as a lawyer. I also think sometimes some of the things I learned as a lawyer get in my way and I have to work around them. For example, when you're a lawyer, you want you really don't want to ask questions you don't already know the answer to. Hmm, Right, so you? So this is this.

Beth: 22:14

That's why you love the podcast because we pre-asked we really have the question, so you know it's going to be asked. And sometimes you're like, don't answer it now, answer it on the podcast. And I'm like, but I need to know the answer now. Yeah, and that's really not a great way to approach, for example, when somebody is coming in to talk about where they are spiritually or if they need a little bit of pastoral counseling.

Beth: 22:37

It's like you should not be coming in thinking you already have all the answers. You need to approach those situations with a sense of curiosity, you know, and asking questions and not knowing the answers, and also realizing the answers very rarely matter, right, when you're a lawyer, the answers matter, so. So in that way some of those things probably get in my way. But but if at the core of that is a sense of being curious, then I think I'm still the same person that I was. It just presents itself in different ways. You know one thing about this idea of change and and and evolution and growth if I think about myself as a 20 year old married person, like every possibility existed ahead of me, right, and each year there are kind of fewer possibilities.

Steph: 23:31

Yeah, I've noticed that with my niblings because they're, all you know, under 13. And it's it's so interesting to see life through their eyes because they're talking about what their futures might look like and what they could do. And I remember when I hear them talk, I remember being that age and being like you could do anything, life could be anything. And then now that I'm in you know, 30s, you're in your 40s, it's like that is a smaller scope, like you and you have more knowledge of what is possible, like as a child, just the world is possible, I could do anything, I could go anywhere. And like also like I know myself better now and so like I don't really like to travel, like you love to travel, but I don't really like to travel.

Steph: 24:15

I don't enjoy a lot of the pieces of travel and, like you know, that's such a stereotype of, or it's something that a lot of people like to do is travel and I'm like I'm good, like I like my house and my dog, and so, like the older I get, the more I'm like I'm good. I'll watch the YouTube video on it. I got it, I'm good. But I know you like travel, so that you definitely fit that stereotype. Yeah.

Beth: 24:43

But the idea that, like you know, when I was, when Steven and I were first married, and like before we had bought a house, like it could have been any house, or before we had kids, our kids could have turned out to be any kind of people you know another.

Steph: 24:57

they're kind of people. Yeah, Now you know what they are.

Beth: 25:00

Well, I mean, it's like, yeah, person and dog person my children will never be, for example, the president of the United States.

Steph: 25:08

And you want them to be there.

Beth: 25:09

Constitutionally they can't.

Steph: 25:11

I didn't know that.

Beth: 25:12

Right yeah, that that literally is a possibility that no longer exists. It probably never really existed. Very few people actually grow up to be president of the United States, but so it's an extreme example Russians are great astronauts. Yeah, except Peter's color blind.

Steph: 25:29

Well, he was not going to be an astronaut. Oh, you know that.

Beth: 25:32

It's okay. I mean, very few people are Exactly that's how we know.

Steph: 25:37

That's what I was saying. It's like I don't think we know any astronauts and we never will. I don't think I'm pretty sure. I mean if that was a goal of his, I don't think it ever was. I think it has to really be a goal and a love for you to even like. Pursue that and get there.

Beth: 25:51

Yes, so every year there seems to be fewer and fewer possibilities.

Steph: 25:58

Is that sad? Is that a sad thing, do you think? Is it sad that your, your scope of life is getting smaller and smaller?

Beth: 26:06

I think it's all in how I choose to look at it. I think if I really saw it as a narrowing or you know that that would feel like less than, that life was becoming less than. But I don't see it that way because at the same time that, like, things that were never a possibility for me are still not a possibility for me I'm never going to be an Olympic figure skater. I didn't even grow up with ice skates Like that was never going to happen. So it's okay with me that that still is never going to happen. As I've gotten older, as I've gotten further in my career, like as you know, just because it's kind of a typical thing that as you get older, your finances kind of get more secure, it's like, oh, that opens up new possibilities and I can lean into those possibilities. And then I'm not sad. Are you? Are you who you thought you would be Like? If you think back to when you were in high school? Would high school senior Stephanie recognize the person sitting across from me?

Steph: 26:59

I think I would recognize myself, but I would be definitely surprised in a lot of ways. Well, first of all, there was no YouTube back then, but I was very much into TV production. I mean, that was a I was doing it. I was actually doing it professionally in high school and I was on my way to major it in college. So I don't think I would be surprised at all that I'm in production in any way. I think I would be excited to see that I had a house. I think I would be excited to know that I had a dog but also been like oh, a dog, what kind is that? What is that? I think I would be shocked to know that I'm a lesbian.

Beth: 27:38

What about the fact that you've written a memoir? What high school you'd be like? Yeah, that tracks.

Steph: 27:43

I think high school me would be like whoa, I have to read that. That will be like so informative. And then I'd read it and I'd be like, oh, that was too much information for right now I haven't lived that yet.

Steph: 27:55

So I I don't think I would have been completely shocked that I wrote a book, although shocked in a sense because I was dyslexic and dyslexic and at that time I didn't have the knowledge of what was in the book. So I probably would have been like, oh, what is that about? Right, yeah. So I don't think I would have been like who is that girl? I think I'd be pleasantly surprised. I'd be like cool, and I'd look exactly like I did too, so I would recognize myself. I still look the same, I like when I was five years old. I still look the exact same. So, just a couple more wrinkles. I earned them. I'm fine with it. It's cool. But yeah, would you recognize yourself?

Beth: 28:34

I think that high school me would be, would be happy. I think high school me would be really relieved. Yeah, I had a lot of fear and anxiety about anxiety might not be the right word I had a lot of fear about is everything going to turn out okay, which is part of what actually Made me an angry mom, right, I mean all that is related. So I think Some, every once in a while, they'll say you know, something will come up on Facebook or whatever, and so somewhere on social media, be like you know what. What are the the three or four words you would want to say To your younger self and I don't even have to think about it. I always it's gonna be okay. I just would want to tell my younger self that it's gonna be okay, you're gonna be okay. Yeah, things are gonna happen and you're still gonna be okay.

Steph: 29:20

Yeah, I think I would say it's gonna be hard but you're gonna be okay. Yeah, like I think that's what I would tell my high school self, because it was after. I mean, it was starting to get hard, but it was like that's when I started going through all the self-indulging, all that stuff right after that, and so I definitely would be like it's gonna be hard but it's gonna be okay.

Beth: 29:40

Yeah, it's gonna be okay.

Steph: 29:42

Well, one thing that you have experience with that I don't yet, but something we keep talking about is that we are constantly changing and growing. Well, how does that work when you're married to somebody? How do you change and grow with another person?

Beth: 29:57

I think one of the one of the most incredible truths in my life, or one of the most incredible gifts in my life, is that Steven and I have grown and changed together in ways that are really complimentary, and I think that's why, all these years later, we're still really happily married, like 28 years.

Steph: 30:19

How'd you do that? How did you make sure you were growing and changing in the same way? I?

Beth: 30:23

Think, just with communication, I think we just I mean, we talk all the time, we might talk more than he wants to, and also Choosing each other. So I can't remember if I talked about this Five years ago or whatever, when we started the podcast. But part of our journey to adoption was a very brief spin through the world of infertility and we had this moment where it was like, well, we are not going to be able to have a baby together Biologically, biologically, so is that why we're together? Like, did we get married to be able to?

Beth: 31:02

Reproduce by a lot, you know, and it was like, no, that's not, that was not our purpose in being married. And so then it kind of opened, opened us up to the realization that we get to choose each other every day, like what a gift is that? And I Think having that, that shared Experience and having that shared realization has has really helped us a lot. You know, it's like, no, I choose to grow with you, I choose to, I choose to share this journey with you, you know. And also he was with me when things got really rough and I was really struggling with grief and really struggling with anger. He, you know, he was right there for me and I have been there for him through similar things. So those, I think those shared experiences really help.

Steph: 31:50

Was there ever a moment when you realized that you couldn't biologically have kids, that you thought are we really compatible, since we can't biologically have children?

Beth: 32:00

No, I don't remember thinking that. I just remember thinking more about Purpose, because we've always been goal oriented, you know, and it was like, okay, well, we have a plan, and our plan is that we're gonna get we're gonna get our bachelor's degrees as quick as we can we're gonna get married, we're gonna get settled in our careers, we're gonna get, you know, a house that is great, a great place for kids to grow up in, and then we're gonna have our babies Biologically yeah.

Steph: 32:26

Which is always what I always think is like Funny about plans is like you're like what's your plan, what's your five-year plan with your 10-year plan? Then you write it all out, you say what it is, and then it's kind of funny because the moment you write it down, as the moment, it seems like it's all gonna change. Yeah, you know, I and I don't know, I kind of I don't make those kind of long-term goals Because I'm like I have zero idea what's gonna happen next, and that's I'm okay with that. And I feel like if I try to put myself in a box, it's a not gonna happen, because something else is gonna happen that I have no idea what that is.

Steph: 33:03

Now. I mean, I'm not against goals. Like I do make goals here and there, but I had no idea five years ago where I'd be today, like so how could I have planned for that then? So it's kind of funny that you're like we're gonna have kids 2.4 kids, right, and you did, though, but it was, it was better. Yeah, it's just chose them. It was just you picked them up.

Beth: 33:25

Yeah, it was. I say it all the time, but the children that God gave us are better than the children we would have made biologically, like I just, I just see that as such a gift and a positive way that the plan Veered off course or, you know, didn't come to fruition. I'm really thankful for it.

Steph: 33:44

It did, it did just in a way that you didn't so big parents, yeah, so we still remain parents.

Beth: 33:51

I remember people saying that and I thought it was weird. But even when your children are, oh yeah. Adults, you still are the parent, and sometimes I'm tired of being the parent, but I do it anyway Because you know it's a privilege.

Steph: 34:07

It switches a little bit as you get older, though, like I do feel, like you know, my mom and I work together and we see each other every day and I feel like there's times where I'm parenting her not in a I mean that sounds a little too extreme, but the Revolve, the roles can reverse in ways then then they always were. I mean, she still is Caring and all those things, but like there's things that I will do that, you know, like a parent would have done for me, but so the lines are blurred.

Beth: 34:38

Yeah, and hopefully our parents are open to Growing and learning too, and so sometimes it can feel like that, like, oh Well, now I, as the parent, have something I need to learn and I can learn it for my kids. Yeah, whereas I've been the teacher, you know that's been, yeah, my role as they've been growing up, for sure.

Steph: 34:56

So obviously you seem like you're the kind of person that likes to have goals and plans and structure. I do so. I guess my question is like Are you still that way today, like this year? Are you have your goals? You're playing your structure. You ready to go? You know what's happening, you know where everything's going.

Beth: 35:13

I still want to be that person. However, I have more uncertainty in my life right now that I've ever had before, and some days that is hard and it's because I I've been approved for ordination in the United Methodist Church and that part of that process is you agree that you will serve in the church that they send you to? And in my particular situation, because of the conference. You know, I serve in the Florida conference. That means anywhere from Chattahoochee, florida, to Key West, florida, and I'm not getting Key West because my friend Madeline is the pastor there and she's amazing and awesome. There's only one. I just got appointed there last July, so I know I'm not getting Key West, so it's we can go visit. I'll go with you.

Steph: 35:58

Yes, I went in.

Beth: 35:59

November and it was amazing. We had a great time. If you happen to be in the Key West area, you should definitely check out Key West. You died at Beth at a church. It's fantastic. It's the first and only it's the only, yeah, the only.

Steph: 36:13

So your uncertainty is coming from the fact that you could be appointed to a church anywhere in Florida.

Beth: 36:21

Almost anywhere. Yeah, almost anywhere. Anywhere that's in the Eastern time zone. Yeah, yeah, and I'm not in control of that, and oh, you love that. I am having a hard time with that.

Steph: 36:33

How is your husband?

Beth: 36:34

dealing with that. It depends on the day, okay.

Steph: 36:37

Yeah.

Beth: 36:38

But actually we have fallen back to well, remember, when we thought that we were gonna have biological children and we thought that it was gonna work out a certain way and actually the way that it worked out was better. I mean, our lens for that is that that was a gift from God, and so it's like, okay, well, this too could be filled with-.

Steph: 36:58

Well, of course it's gonna be God related. It's church, Church, God Done yeah.

Beth: 37:05

Yeah, so I but still I mean, and there's so much head up in that right. I mean, when you're a pastor, the church provides your housing. Yeah, so we might not get to pick the house we live in. I will say gone are the days of when the church used to also provide the furniture for the house, because that would be gross.

Steph: 37:22

Can't they just do stipends now?

Beth: 37:23

They do, and a lot of churches are doing that now Instead of an actual house. But if you ask Stephen, he'll say Right, beth, right, you're gonna find a house that's within the housing allowance. Sure, you are Cause he teases me a little bit about being extra and liking things to be a little bit extra nice or a little bit extra big or a little bit you know. So I don't know. I don't know what will happen. That's the thing is, I just don't know what will happen.

Steph: 37:50

And.

Beth: 37:50

I don't know where my kids are gonna live. Hannah is getting ready to finish community college, which means it's time for her to transfer, and I don't know exactly which city she's gonna transfer to. And then, if I move and she moves, probably my son will move too. Like I don't know where we're gonna be living. I mean, you can't see me, you guys, but my shoulders are up at my ears Cause I'm like I don't know what's happening. Yeah, but I do.

Steph: 38:20

I know that it's gonna be okay. Yeah, you want all the answers but you can't have them now. And it's gonna be okay, but it's really hard to live in that uncertainty.

Beth: 38:29

Yes, I don't like the uncertainty. It's just like when someone is really sick and you're waiting on test results that's the worst time. Sometimes the waiting is worse than just getting their results and knowing. Okay, now I have to make a plan for what's gonna happen next. It's just the uncertainty of it is uncomfortable.

Steph: 38:47

Yes, and that is kind of crazy, because I am in that same uncertainty because my mom has been talking about wanting to possibly move to Orlando, yeah, and to be with her grandkids, yes, which you know, I've lived in Orlando and that was enough for me. So I'm in a very uncertain time. Where would I move? Is she gonna move? What does that look like? So I kind of have the same kind of uncertainty about like and that's a big thing, like the security of where you're going to live, like is a big deal, like, at least it is to me, I'm assuming it is for a lot of people but like knowing where you're gonna be and I love Tallahassee as much as, like I know people might.

Beth: 39:33

Just I know, I know I love Tallahassee. I choose Tallahassee every day. Yes, I mean Stephen, and I have said that so many times because you know, as he's built his business, he doesn't have any clients in Tallahassee. So this is a choice. This is the place where we have chosen to live, and now my job might make us move.

Steph: 39:52

Yeah, it's scary, I know, I know my job that is not lucrative, yeah, but it's a God given job and you got to listen, yeah, yeah.

Beth: 40:04

I yeah. And then, when everything is, you know, when I'm at my best, I'm like, oh, I want to listen. Yeah, I want you know, yeah.

Steph: 40:10

And I'm comfortable, I'll listen here. I'm ready, yes, yes, but when I'm uncomfortable, no, I don't know what's happening. I just make sure. I want to know everything.

Beth: 40:19

I need to know the plans, but it's going to be okay. Just like I would tell myself of however many years ago. I need to remind myself of that. Now it's going to be okay.

Steph: 40:33

At the IndieViege episode we end with questions for reflection. These are questions based on today's show that Beth will read and leave a little pause between for you to answer to yourself, or you can find the written in our description.

Beth: 40:44

Number one do you believe people can change? Have you changed? Number two are you the same person you were in high school? Would the high school version of yourself recognize you today? Number three if you could forecast the next five or 10 years of your life, what changes do you think you might see? And number four do people hold us back from growing up?

Steph: 41:09

This has been the Discovering Our Scores podcast. Thank you for joining us.

Beth: 41:14

Thank you.